7 september 2025
Mirco Wolf Wiegert is the founder and CEO of Fritz Kola, the German cola brand that started in 2003 with just 7,000 euros and now employs over 340 people. Fritz Kola sells in more than 25 countries and has grown to become Germany’s number 2 cola brand. Mirco shares his story about building an independent brand in an industry dominated by giants.
Three things you’ll learn in this episode:
???? How to build an international brand with minimal budget without external investors
⚔️ Why competition can be so fierce that competitors literally start copying you
???? The importance of delegation and personal development as a growing entrepreneur
CALLS TO ACTION ????
Voeg Mirco toe op LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mirco-wolf-wiegert/
Check de website van Fritz Kola hier: https://fritz-kola.com/nl
Overige links naar boeken en bruikbare bronnen voor ondernemers:
BRONNEN
Podcast: Business Wars (English and German)
Podcast: How I Built This with Guy Raz
Book: Mirco Wolf Wiegert’s book (co-author)
00:00 Welcome to Groeivoer
00:37 Entrepreneur or idealist?
02:32 First breakthrough
04:11 Big bang moments
05:33 Startup bullshit
08:43 Current size
10:40 The cola industry
11:17 Competitor copies Fritz Kola
14:37 Brand building
17:51 Political positioning
21:47 Avoiding boycotts
23:24 Personal development
25:31 Delegation as challenge
27:40 Strategy process
29:32 Freedom and independence
31:45 Business trips
34:29 European/worldwide ambitions
36:33 Money as enabler
38:21 Ideals and revenue
40:51 Self-care and health
42:06 Support-network of entrepreneurs
44:41 What he’d change
45:52 Sources of inspiration
48:09 Father as entrepreneur
49:51 Cash management as foundation
51:16 The ultimate question
52:50 Advice for entrepreneurs
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[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (0:00 – 0:37)
So my co-founder and I, we had only 7,000 euros from our bank accounts. This is the way we founded and funded Fritz Cola. No foreign investment, no startup, no angel money, no other bullshit.
In the 90s here in northern Germany, when you went to a bar, cafe or music club and you asked for cola or any other soft drink, you get a glass of lukewarm cola. So that’s what made us think, what if we start our own cola and soft drink business? I mean, the first business plan was a one-pager.
It’s a very simple basic plan. And now, more than 20 years later, it’s a longer process for several weeks.
[Gerhard te Velde] (0:37 – 0:41)
Are you an entrepreneur with ideals or are you an idealist with a company?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (0:42 – 0:55)
Work should offer fun and pleasure. Think, when you wake up on a Monday morning, do you want to go to work or do you have to go to work? If you have to go to work, do something other.
Do change your job. Get out. Go somewhere.
[Gerhard te Velde] (0:58 – 1:29)
Welcome to Groeivoer. My name is Gerhard de Velden. I’m joined today by Mirko Wolf-Wiechert.
He’s the founder and CEO of Fritz Cola. It’s a cola brand from Hamburg and probably you know them already if you’re from the Netherlands. The company was founded in 2002 and their first batch of cola was made in 2003.
And today they employ over 300 people and they sell their products in more than 25 countries. So, let’s dive into this story. Mirko, welcome to the podcast.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (1:30 – 1:32)
Hi, Gerhard. Thank you for the invitation.
[Gerhard te Velde] (1:33 – 1:56)
Yeah, you’re a busy man. You’ve had an intense day already and still you’re making time. So, we really appreciate that.
And I’m curious because you’ve done so many interviews. Well, you might get a little tired of it, like telling the story over and over again. But there are also good memories.
So, is there like an interview that really stands out for you?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (1:58 – 2:31)
I really love interviews, even though sometimes I’m stressed, but I still love it. I like talking to people and telling my story. But I remember the very first interview was back in 2003 to a local newspaper, a true paper news magazine here in Hamburg in 2003.
So, the journalist asked me or asked my co-founder and me, what are we doing? Why are we starting our Fritz Cola? So, I have good memories.
[Gerhard te Velde] (2:32 – 2:42)
Yeah. Did it instantaneously cause like a breakthrough? Was it like a big moment also for the business?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (2:46 – 3:33)
Yeah. We started in February 2003 and we had the interview in April. Because my co-founder stopped a journalist in his car somewhere here in Hamburg and asked if they could have an interview with us.
And yes, we had on page one a small teaser and then we had two pages in the newspaper. So, page seven and eight, I guess it was. So, it was a big breakthrough here in Hamburg because what the journalist did, he took some samples of our products and did a product trial on the student campus in downtown and wrote about this experience.
[Gerhard te Velde] (3:34 – 4:09)
Cool. Yeah. With some brands, you feel like they have like a big breakthrough and they become trending and they get hyped, but they also disappear after a while.
After a few years, you don’t see them anymore and you have been building very consistently, already going towards the 25th anniversary. That’s going to be probably a big thing. And if you look at the journey so far, do you see any big breakthrough moments or was it more like a gradual evolution?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (4:11 – 4:27)
It was more like a step-by-step approach. So, I mean, today we are quite a big company and more or less all over Europe, but it was a long marathon to come here. So, there was no one single breakthrough moment.
[Gerhard te Velde] (4:28 – 4:37)
No. Interesting, because that’s the story we want to hear, you know, we want to hear the big bang, but actually if you want to… Sorry, not big bang.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (4:37 – 4:37)
Exactly.
[Gerhard te Velde] (4:38 – 4:43)
If you want to build a solid company, that might take decades, you know, there’s no instant success.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (4:45 – 5:33)
Yeah, I mean, to convince consumers or customers, clients to take money and buy your product is to take quite an effort. And we have a perspective for about 100 years. So, we would like to build a cola brand, a cola company, long lasting with a high quality, with a deep brand impression.
And we started only with 7,000 euros. So, my co-founder and I, we had only 7,000 euros from our bank accounts. This is the way we founded and funded Fritz Cola back in the days.
No foreign investments, no startup, no angel money, no other bullshit. So, in this way, it took a bit longer to get here, but yes, we have a quite solid business.
[Gerhard te Velde] (5:33 – 5:42)
Yeah, I like the word you said, like the startup bullshit. Do you think that things changed a lot in that perspective?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (5:44 – 6:16)
Yeah, what I see today is that a lot of business is more short-sighted, quick scaling, quick exiting, big funding. In my community, in my bubble, I saw a lot of failure, busts, bubbles, because people were more focusing about financing instead of building the company and sales and consumers.
[Gerhard te Velde] (6:18 – 6:37)
Yeah, exactly. And when I listen to other interviews, that the customer focus is really strong. That’s one of the key points.
Would you say that’s one of the success factors, or how would you reflect on that?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (6:39 – 7:12)
Yes. So, I just returned from two days on a touristy island at the North Sea visiting customers and talking to customers and consumers about our brand, our products. I take this into account when we talk about strategy.
So, this focusing and close contacts of consumers and customers is part of the success, of course, and it’s very important to us.
[Gerhard te Velde] (7:12 – 7:19)
Yeah. Can you expand a little bit more about this event? So, you said you were two days talking to consumers?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (7:20 – 8:01)
No, this time customers and more, it’s more customers and consumers. So, I went to an island, because now it’s almost summer holiday season here in Germany. It’s the beginning of June.
So, it’s the main time for the beach season, where people hang out, go to the beach club and have a nice cold fritz bowl, or any other stuff, drink some water and stuff. So, I talked with clients about the business, about the preparations, how Fritz Kohler fits in. What’s good and what’s not so good.
So, yeah.
[Gerhard te Velde] (8:03 – 8:07)
But you were just on a holiday? You were just relaxing or was it a business trip?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (8:07 – 8:22)
No, it was a business trip together with my staff. So, two sales managers, a local sales manager and the head of sales on trade or hospitality. Together as three, we went to the different clients.
[Gerhard te Velde] (8:22 – 8:41)
Yeah, okay. I think for the listener and the viewer, it might be nice to have a little overview of the company. So, you started with just two guys in 2002, but where is the company now?
How big is it? Maybe, I don’t know if you share all the numbers, but could you give us an overview?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (8:43 – 9:49)
Yeah, so, we are a Fritz, we are the Kohler company. So, our main product is Fritz Kohler. We do have six bottling partners, so companies bottle our products.
We have more than 340 Fritzees, so that’s how we call the employees here at Fritz Kohler. And we sell from Scandinavia down to Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, New Zealand, Strasbourg, Poland, the Baltics, not longer to Russia, but still to Ukraine. And some clients in Hungary, Slovenia.
This is all over Germany, of course, and Austria. So, this is our distribution area where we distribute our products. So, mainly the hospitality industry, so bars, cafes, restaurants, music clubs.
Music venues, big outdoor festivals, and we do have retail customs as well. It’s like Jumbo and Albert Heijn and stuff.
[Gerhard te Velde] (9:49 – 9:57)
Yeah, I read about that. Yeah. Yeah, and that’s good news.
So, it’s coming directly to the consumer in the supermarket.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (9:58 – 9:59)
How’s that going so far?
[Gerhard te Velde] (10:00 – 10:01)
Is it getting picked up by the audience?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (10:02 – 10:18)
Yeah, I mean, we are number two in Kohler business here in Germany. And less bottles in retail. And I’m not sure our status in the Netherlands.
We are way behind Germany, but still, we have good listings.
[Gerhard te Velde] (10:24 – 10:36)
So, of all these countries, what are the most important ones? Obviously, Germany, but after Germany, is there like a runner-up? Or what are the main countries?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (10:40 – 10:56)
There are several countries. So, we do not share this more scientific data, to be honest. Competition is quite fierce and very hard, very tough.
It’s a rough game. Yeah. So, I will not talk about this.
[Gerhard te Velde] (10:57 – 11:15)
Okay, interesting. Can you tell us a bit more about the rough game? Because that was also one of the questions on my list, of course.
Like, is there a story you could share of the… Well, I wouldn’t say the shady world of monopolists. But what kind of things are happening?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (11:17 – 12:41)
Yeah, I mean, we have one main competitor, more or less, in the Kohler business. And the latest news is that almost two years ago, the local airport here in Hamburg asked us if we could provide vending machines with Fritz Kohler to the passengers in the airport. And we were very happy and prepared good-looking and well-functioning, state-of-the-art, shiny vending machines.
And in the meantime, the competitor had old-fashioned, boring, not-so-shiny vending machines. But after one year, we recognized and we took some pictures of how our competitor copied our vending machines. So, with the same color code, we have a Fritz Kohler black and white color code.
So, they refurbished their vending machines to black and white, with almost the same style approach, almost the same design, but just another logo on top. So, this is a way how to make our brand vanishing at the airport, in this specific consumer occasion.
[Gerhard te Velde] (12:41 – 12:43)
Yeah. So, how does that make you feel?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (12:47 – 13:18)
We were quite proud, because, I mean, we are a wonderful Kohler business. But still, we are pretty small, right? We are 4% of the Kohler share here in Germany.
So, not really a big thing. But this big, big player, so when they copy us like this, one-on-one, so very close copy, we say, okay, it must be strange to them to copy the smallest competitor in this way.
[Gerhard te Velde] (13:19 – 13:42)
Yeah. So, you see this more, of course, that the small companies, they are doing the real innovation. And then, when it works, the bigger companies start copying that.
But I’m curious, do the consumers also appreciate it? Or do they see through it? What’s your perception?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (13:44 – 14:17)
No, I don’t think there’s a consumer who really understands it. Because for the consumer, it’s a Kohler brand and suffering. So, they’re not that deep into details and that, okay, I guess they have a lot of different stuff in mind.
But we are happy that our fans still buy us and they recognize the difference. They know what Kohlers they want. So, even though we get copied quite tough, still, other consumers find a way to us.
[Gerhard te Velde] (14:18 – 14:34)
Yeah. I’m curious also, because I hear you talking a lot about brands. Would you say that building a brand is one of the main goals or one of the main things you should do to become bigger?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (14:37 – 16:28)
Yeah. I mean, we started Fritz Kohler in 2003. So, we had one year of preparation.
And when we go back in the 90s here in northern Germany, and you went to a bar, cafe, or music club, and you ask for a Kohler or any other soft drink, you get a glass of lukewarm Kohler or soft drink without ice. And the taste was bad, the quality was bad. So, it was really unsparing to get a soft drink somewhere.
So, that’s what made us think about, okay, what if we start our own Kohler and soft drink business? Offering only small glass bottles. So, the venue owner just has to cool down the drinks and offer them ice cold, open it in front of the guests and deliver a bottle of Fritz Kohler.
And due to our short fundings of only 7,000 euros, we created a very simple black-white image. We took our faces to differentiate our product from other soft drink brands, because we had the right to use our faces, of course. And we had a very simple…
We used simple letters for our naming, just short German name. Yeah. And this way is very reduced to the core, made us building a brand still recognizable more than 20 years later.
[Gerhard te Velde] (16:28 – 16:31)
Yeah. And what would you say the brand stands for?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (16:34 – 17:51)
The brand stands for a kind of alternative toward another brand, or we are an independent brand. So, in English, you would say craft brand, but we don’t use a craft brand, because if you translate craft into German, which is our native language, people just mess it up. So, we are more on the term indie brand.
Yeah, like independent indie, yeah. Yes, yes. We have a better taste, a better amount of caffeine, because we are not so mass marketing.
Our aim is, once you have an ice cold Fritz Cola, you should really recognize the rush coming out of the soft drink, the Cola, because there’s sugar in it, there’s a lot of caffeine in it. And so, you must not drink two or three liters a day, but just drink the small bottle and then you’re fine off with Fritz Cola. And we are more in this enjoy the moment, full passion, intensity, a good time with friends.
And in this, we are more deeper into this than other brands.
[Gerhard te Velde] (17:51 – 17:54)
Yeah. What would you say if people would call it a woke brand?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (17:57 – 18:50)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, what happened since 2018, 19 is that the rest of the world changed a bit, right? At least from my perspective.
I don’t know how you see it in the Netherlands. I’m not sure about that. But we recognized a growing populism on left, right side of the spectrum.
So, yeah, we discuss these issues from time to time, very intense here in our offices and in our marketing department and leadership. I wouldn’t say we’re a woke brand, because I really don’t like this term.
[Gerhard te Velde] (18:51 – 20:13)
Yeah. Well, in Holland, I think it’s just a word, you know, but people think so many things about it. And I’m thinking about this because the spark to reach out to you and to have an interview was, I do have a Palestinian friend.
He’s one of my best friends. And he told me about all the products you could use, but you could also try boycotting certain products. And then I thought, okay, what if I don’t want to drink Coca-Cola anymore?
What are my options? And also, I don’t want to drink Pepsi. And then I came to Fritz Cola.
And then I thought, hey, that’s interesting. Well, you guys are the only mainstream alternative, at least in the Netherlands. But also coming back to the woke question to say, and also the political side of things, probably it’s very risky to be very political as a company.
So you may respond already if you have ideas about it.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (20:13 – 21:36)
Yeah. I mean, what we did quite successful in the past is to respond to certain certain discussions within the German or maybe to the European society as such. Like when we changed the labels of our Cola, we changed the logo to a European map with the European stars on it and asking people to participate in the European election.
So this is quite political. It was not towards a specific party or towards a certain direction. It was more, hey, Europeans, get up and go participate in the election.
So this was political. Or last summer, we had a campaign in three federal states in Germany where we showed faces from our customers from grill bars and other restaurants and asked people to go for diversity. So this is quite political.
[Gerhard te Velde] (21:37 – 21:45)
Yeah, but it’s not really so controversial, right? I mean, there are some topics you might want to stay away from, because that could really explode in your face.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (21:47 – 22:54)
Yeah, we stay away from this Israel-Palestine conflict, to be honest, because there’s no way we’re going to win there. Because this is super emotional. If you have a Palestine friend, you know it’s super emotional.
It’s a life or death. It’s a horrible situation down there. Yeah, so we keep quiet for the moment, especially for this specific situation down there.
And with our strong German heritage, we are a European soft drink, but we have a very strong German heritage, of course. We are not a boycott brand. So just imagine you’re a German company and you’re into this boycott game.
It reminds you quite fast on the 40s or 30s of the last century, where we here were boycotting other people. So we’re out of this boycott game.
[Gerhard te Velde] (22:54 – 23:23)
Yeah, okay. Let’s switch gears a little bit, because I also want to dive a little bit into your personal development as an entrepreneur. You started out with two guys.
Now you’re the leader. Was this also like an evolution with many tiny steps? Or would you say there were really some shifts in your development?
How do you reflect on that?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (23:24 – 24:13)
This is a constant change. When I started Fritz Kohler together with my co-founder, we did everything on our own. We didn’t even talk about our preparations to start Fritz Kohler with other people, but even with friends and family.
And today I run a company of this size together with a very good management board. So this requires constant change and working on your own ways of working. This day, today, I just had a four-hour session together with my coach, just to prepare myself better to the leadership of the company.
[Gerhard te Velde] (24:14 – 24:20)
Can you give a little bit of an insight of something you’re struggling with or something you’re growing in?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (24:24 – 24:55)
Yeah. I mean, one thing, I really love my company. I love to work here.
And what is typical for entrepreneurs, and for me as well, is to let loose certain issues, certain tasks, and to trust other people that they can fix it. They do their job. So I’m growing into this.
It’s quite a challenge. But yes, a lot of training, a lot of discussions. Yeah.
[Gerhard te Velde] (24:55 – 25:29)
Well, I can imagine if you build it with your own hands, you know every detail of the company. But yeah, what’s wise, you know? Like on the one hand, you should be the visionary and have the big picture and be the shepherd of the culture and all these big things.
And on the other hand, it really matters. The details really matter. So yeah, how do you balance that?
Did you find a solution for this dilemma?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (25:31 – 26:00)
No, I have no solution for this. I mean, I’m into this. On certain issues, I’m very deep into details like product quality and customers, how we work together with our clients and customers, consumers.
Yeah, I mean, this is part of my role. To keep an eye on certain issues and a bit more far away from other stuff.
[Gerhard te Velde] (26:00 – 26:14)
Yeah. What about the future roles? Are you preparing also for like going to America or 10X-ing your company?
Or some people have these kind of dreams?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (26:17 – 26:43)
Yeah. Hmm. We go towards becoming a more international company, that’s for sure.
And a more European company. And so we’re focusing on our European business. I mean, America is wonderful.
But to go from Germany and from Europe to America is quite a step. It quite needs a lot of effort. And we’re not that big.
[Gerhard te Velde] (26:44 – 27:05)
No. What are things you do to stay focused? Because people come to you every day with ideas.
Well, maybe not every day, but all the time. You know, like we should go there or we should go the other direction. Or we have a new idea or a new product.
Or how do you keep the people aligned?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (27:06 – 27:27)
Yeah, one way to keep focused is that we had an intense strategy process. Within our management team. And we just stick to the process.
So this helps us to stay focused and to cut off stuff we don’t need and to deny proposals.
[Gerhard te Velde] (27:27 – 27:35)
Yeah. Could you unpack that a bit more? Because also for the entrepreneurs listening, that could be interesting.
Like how do you strategize? What are the steps?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (27:40 – 28:51)
I mean, the first business plan was a one-pager. Just one page where we wrote everything down we needed. The four Ps.
Price, place, packaging, promotion, targeting, which target group we had, and how we structured our business. A very simple basic plan. And then we could start it with this very first one-pager as a business plan.
This helped us to get started at the beginning. So let’s go on. Don’t lose too much time into little, tiny details you just don’t need at this specific moment.
And now, more than 20 years later, it’s a longer process for several weeks where we have sessions working on details. On the big picture and on details. Which countries or which regions look promising.
Which products, which price points. Which route to market. Yeah, in these 20 years we’re more into details.
But it all started with the first initial one-pager. And this might be good enough.
[Gerhard te Velde] (28:53 – 29:06)
And are you also the visionary in the company that really puts the goal on the board? Or is it like a democratic…
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (29:06 – 29:25)
I’m the visionary here in the company. To look for the long-term goal and to put different puzzles within the company together.
[Gerhard te Velde] (29:26 – 29:29)
What do you enjoy most about being an entrepreneur?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (29:32 – 30:22)
As an entrepreneur, I love the challenge of running a growing company. And I love the independence. I mean, I’m more or less my own boss.
That’s what I like most. Yes, a certain degree of freedom. Yeah, as an entrepreneur.
Even though there are a lot of stakeholders, you have to manage all the stuff. At the end, you’re the boss around the company. And I would be a happy entrepreneur even though my company would be smaller.
Would be good enough. I mean, from my perspective, if you earn enough to make a living with it, it’s good. But this approach of do your stuff, do whatever you want, more or less, just keeps me happy.
[Gerhard te Velde] (30:23 – 30:24)
So how much freedom do you really have?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (30:27 – 30:43)
Well, yes, quite a lot. Even though I have an assistant doing my calendar and helping me with emails and communication. I’m still in driver’s seat of my life.
So this is very important.
[Gerhard te Velde] (30:43 – 30:45)
Yeah. Is there anything besides work?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (30:49 – 30:56)
Yes, the private friends and family. I’m very happy. And I still have some room left for this.
[Gerhard te Velde] (30:56 – 31:06)
Yeah, okay. And like running, I heard that’s a thing. But are there more things you enjoy doing?
Or maybe there are some things on your bucket list? I’m just curious.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (31:08 – 31:34)
And there’s a good thing is, as entrepreneur, I can plan my own trips. So my business trips. And when I plan my business trips, I always take in some private interest.
I’m interested into art and culture and history. So everywhere I go, most time I go somewhere, I have some small things I want to see.
[Gerhard te Velde] (31:35 – 31:44)
Cool. Yeah, so you can create it for yourself. And what would be an example?
Did you go on a cool trip the past few months? Yeah.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (31:45 – 31:58)
Yeah, this spring. I went together with my manager director to Dubai, Singapore and Bangkok. Cool.
And yes.
[Gerhard te Velde] (31:59 – 32:09)
Tell me what’s happening there. I mean, it was unexpected because you said, well, we’re mostly European country. What you’re doing there and what did you observe?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (32:09 – 32:40)
Yeah, we are a European company. But at the same time, when you see places like Bangkok, I mean, I’m not an expert in Bangkok, but what I saw there was very inspiring for our hospitality industry. All these restaurants, bars, cafes, clubs, and we saw just a very tiny fraction of it was super inspiring.
So yeah, as a brand for hospitality, we’re always in this game, of course.
[Gerhard te Velde] (32:41 – 32:43)
Yeah. So Bangkok stood out. And what about Dubai?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (32:46 – 33:16)
Dubai was a very interesting business place. I mean, you go there for a show. We were there for the food show.
And you go there for business purposes. This is the reason why people go to Dubai, I think. And it’s because Dubai is new.
It’s a young city, ultra international, more than other cities. So yeah, from there, we proceed to Singapore.
[Gerhard te Velde] (33:18 – 33:22)
Could you envision Fritz Cola being a global brand?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (33:31 – 33:34)
Yeah. First things first. First, we are a European brand.
[Gerhard te Velde] (33:36 – 34:28)
Because the Dutch, sometimes we get like the remark that we think too small. You know, like if you ask a Dutch entrepreneur, like, what are your ambitions? Most of the time they say like, okay, let’s first go to Germany.
And then maybe if that works, we could go to France or we could go to some other country. And there is a thing going on in the tech scene in the Netherlands that people are saying, we should think bigger, you know, we should really have bigger ambitions. And I thought that like, there’s a lot of German brands, like, well, the obvious names, like the car brands, the BMW, Audi, Mercedes, like those are global brands.
So what’s holding you back or what’s stopping you from that ambition?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (34:29 – 34:47)
In my industry, a lot of our industry partners focusing only on Germany. And right from the beginning, my co-founder and I said, no, we go Europe. It’s not an easy task, but why not?
[Gerhard te Velde] (34:48 – 34:49)
That’s already a big step.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (34:50 – 36:13)
It is a step. But I remember before we had bars and cafes and restaurants in Munich, we had clubs and cafes in Amsterdam, because Amsterdam is quite connected to Hamburg. So both are North European cities, not similar, but something in common.
So Amsterdam is closer to Hamburg in a lot of aspects than Munich. So even though Amsterdam is Dutch, but this showed us that we are targeting a certain scene and certain kind of way of living. But you find this everywhere, everywhere in Europe.
You find this in Dubai and Bangkok as well. We used to have this in Moscow. And but the beauty of the common European market is that it is still a challenge.
There’s still a lot of barriers. And even today, there are more and more barriers to do trade within the European countries, getting worse every day. But still, there’s a common market to trade with.
So as a Dutch company, it’s easy to go to Germany or to Belgium and to France. There’s some hurdles, of course. But yeah, you just go over them.
[Gerhard te Velde] (36:15 – 36:32)
How important is money in the entrepreneurial game? Because when you said, oh, there are hurdles, but you can manage them. That also might take a good business model.
If you’re not making any money, how would you pay for expansion?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (36:33 – 36:36)
Yeah, you need money to make a company.
[Gerhard te Velde] (36:37 – 36:37)
Yeah.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (36:37 – 36:48)
No money, no fun. So money is you need for make things happen. So money is, therefore, money is important, of course.
[Gerhard te Velde] (36:49 – 36:50)
So it’s an enabler?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (36:51 – 36:57)
It’s an enabler, yes. But not more. Money is not more than an enabler.
[Gerhard te Velde] (36:57 – 37:10)
Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting because when I’m talking to you, I think, are you an entrepreneur with ideals or are you an idealist with a company? How would you respond to that?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (37:14 – 38:21)
It depends. Because I wouldn’t separate these two scenarios from each other. Because there are times where business is easy going.
You make a good amount of money and you can afford more idealism. And then there are tougher times where we really have to focus on a penny and have more focusing of a certain revenue to get the company through tough times. Like these days.
These days, or since Corona, or since COVID-19, how you call it in English, time changed a bit. So we have to focus for this time being, focusing more on, OK, let the company push forward that we make the money we need. And the idealism, we still have, we still practice it.
But we have to outbalance it with revenue.
[Gerhard te Velde] (38:21 – 39:28)
Yeah, it’s interesting because it’s also part of your brand. So you have these values, you have identity, you have idealism or having certain standards that’s part of the brand. That’s also why you’re not playing the dirty game or the tricks that the bad boys or the big players do, maybe.
But on the other hand, you just need to push the product. You need to compete with them as well. And there’s many stories from the Netherlands, I think, from Heineken or some other big brewer.
They just take over a bar. So they just go to the owner and they say, OK, I give you signage, I give you free parasol, I give you everything, but you have to sign the contract now for five years. So it’s like the biggest player that just is buying the contracts.
So, yeah, I could imagine that’s sometimes a bit of a dilemma. Like, should we push for more revenue or should we go for the ideals?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (39:30 – 39:41)
Yeah, I mean, we have this discussion every day, how to outbalance. This is our daily business. Sometimes we do mistakes, so no worries.
We do things wrong.
[Gerhard te Velde] (39:42 – 39:43)
What would be a mistake?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (39:45 – 40:08)
I don’t tell you. No, but honestly, I mean, we do it for such a long time with so many people, you can bet that from time to time we have to readjust our strategy, our daily business, our routine market, and have to refocus us.
[Gerhard te Velde] (40:08 – 40:25)
Yeah. Zooming on a little bit further on your part, you said you’re working on delegating and trusting other people to do stuff. Are there some other things you struggle with or work on?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (40:27 – 40:38)
No, this is the most important, at least in my personal development. No, this is basically…
[Gerhard te Velde] (40:39 – 40:49)
Yeah, and how do you protect yourself? Because I also know a lot of entrepreneurs that take care of their business, but they don’t take care of themselves. So how do you balance that?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (40:51 – 41:20)
Yeah, good you mentioned it, Gert. Sometimes you forget, but then your body reminds you. The basic needs, eat enough, drink enough, do enough sports, take your time for yourself, sleep.
You need sleep. So today I have an assistant, and she helps me to build up my calendar, including eating, drinking, sleeping, having enough time.
[Gerhard te Velde] (41:21 – 41:24)
So you have someone taking care of you.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (41:24 – 41:39)
Yeah, and before that, in the early days, my best friend was a big day meat, big midnight, aspirin, all the stuff that you get through the day, right?
[Gerhard te Velde] (41:39 – 41:40)
Yeah, just push, push, push.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (41:40 – 41:47)
And I can tell you, this is not very healthy. Don’t do it. You can do it for a week maybe, but that’s it more or less.
[Gerhard te Velde] (41:48 – 41:50)
So do you have entrepreneurial friends you talk to?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (41:54 – 41:58)
Yes, a couple here from Northern Germany, a couple of other entrepreneurs.
[Gerhard te Velde] (41:58 – 42:04)
So what do you guys talk about? Is there a central theme, or are there things that keep coming back?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (42:06 – 43:02)
It was just last weekend when I met with other entrepreneurs in Denmark, and we were reflecting on our personal or on our business issues we have, and reflected on them, and quite honest, quite direct. And so how to delegate, how to manage yourself, how to be honest and true to yourself, and not avoid conflicts, but get through them. Yeah, we choose kind of group coaching tool.
Yeah, or framework was quite effective.
[Gerhard te Velde] (43:02 – 43:43)
Yeah, it reminds me of accountability partnership. So that’s like a thing where you have an accountability partner, so that’s a different entrepreneur. Could be a friend, could be a bit further away, but you meet…
Well, actually, I do it too. I have an accountability partner, and we meet every month. And then we get our goals, and we share them, and then we start reflecting like, okay, this is your goals, but you’re doing something else.
So what’s going on there? Or you could share your struggles. So do you do this on a structural basis, or was this just a coincidental thing?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (43:44 – 44:26)
No, I do this once a year with this group, and it’s super effective. Yeah. And I meet other entrepreneurs, and what I recognize among entrepreneurs, people are quite open and discuss their issues quite open, even though you don’t know each other so well.
But at the end, it’s everywhere the same game, right? We’re all just, how we say in German, cooking with water. There’s not much secret behind it.
Being an entrepreneur is just basically a lot of work, passion, enthusiasm, and some barriers to get along with.
[Gerhard te Velde] (44:27 – 44:36)
If you would start all over again, is there something you would… I mean, it’s a bit of a cliche question maybe, but is there something you would do differently?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (44:41 – 45:05)
I’m not sure. Because today I know so much about the industry, about entrepreneur. If I would start today, I would not start with the software, because that was something else.
But I would always start becoming an entrepreneur.
[Gerhard te Velde] (45:06 – 45:49)
Yeah, it’s your destiny to be an entrepreneur and be free. Yes. Yeah, for sure.
Cool. Maybe a little bit of advice coming from you. I’m looking for sources that people could go to.
So besides your own book, of course, because you’ve written a book as well together with a co-author. But besides… Well, okay, let’s start there.
Everybody should read your book. That’s step one. And then if you could gift a book to say 10 or 100 entrepreneurs, what book comes to mind?
Could also be a movie or a podcast or any other source.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (45:52 – 46:34)
I read so many books from entrepreneurs about their business. I have a whole shelf about these books. And from each book, I have one or two pages with notes about insights that I took with me.
And I hear the Business Wars podcast, if you’re wondering. Yeah. And I hear the German version as well.
The German version is a bit different than the American version. But it’s very good. Both are very good.
I hear how I built this with Skyrath.
[Gerhard te Velde] (46:34 – 46:35)
Skyrath, yeah, of course.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (46:35 – 46:36)
He’s a super cool guy.
[Gerhard te Velde] (46:38 – 46:47)
Did he interview you yet? No, not yet. I will make a suggestion.
I don’t know if it will get through, but it could be cool.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (46:48 – 46:49)
I need to improve my English for this.
[Gerhard te Velde] (46:50 – 46:51)
No, no, no, no. You’re fine.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (46:52 – 47:58)
Yeah, you’re good. And what I do is I do notes or write emails to myself so that I can go through it later. So this learning, these insights, finds their way into my strategy or into my daily business here as an entrepreneur.
Yeah. And what’s good is with these books from entrepreneurs or their podcasts, people are quite open with failures, what went good, what went wrong. And it’s marvelous.
So people just tell their real life story about entrepreneurship, more or less, super directly with less filters. And you can just learn from them. Yeah.
Yeah, that’s super cool. Yeah, but my advice would be start with a small business plan. Not too detailed, not too much in the future, just rough.
Because you learn on the way anyway so much that you have to readjust a bit every day.
[Gerhard te Velde] (47:59 – 48:09)
Good advice. I’m just a little bit curious about the rest of your family. So your parents, are they still alive or around?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (48:09 – 48:40)
Yes, my parents are alive. My father used to be an entrepreneur. He sold his business for some years ago, but so he’s not working anymore.
Yeah, but my father was a big inspiration because he used to be an entrepreneur. At the end, he was selling clothes for women at the German Baltic coast in different shops at beaches and stuff. I worked there quite quickly in the holidays and on the weekend.
I worked along with him.
[Gerhard te Velde] (48:40 – 48:49)
Yeah, so he was an inspiration. Is there something he always said like, do this or don’t do that? Like a golden rule you still carry with you?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (48:52 – 49:40)
Let me think. What was important for him to manage his cash? So it’s nice that you have a big shop or a big warehouse or a big car.
But the first thing you manage is your cash. Do you have enough cash? Not credit, nothing but bank account, just liquid cash.
How much do you have? Is there enough? And what do you have to pay this month?
Is there enough cash? Can you do it? Yes, what’s left?
So very basic, to be honest, very basic, very simple. And the whole truth. As an entrepreneur, do you have enough cash?
If not, you have a problem. If yes, it’s good.
[Gerhard te Velde] (49:42 – 49:49)
And it seems like a basic thing. Like everybody knows this, but probably not everybody does.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (49:51 – 50:30)
Yes, and sometimes I’m surprised how many people forget it. So if you have no cash, you have no fun. It’s as easy as this.
So if you run out of cash, you’re done. And you have to ask other people for new money. So this is even worse.
So but I’m not a tech guy. So I’m more into this consumer goods business. And their cash is an issue because you have to manage it.
You have to handle it. You have to make sure that there is enough cash and that you have this cash process. You should really own this.
Otherwise, just, yeah, this is a business.
[Gerhard te Velde] (50:31 – 50:36)
So do you think your parents are proud of you? Do they talk to you about that?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (50:37 – 50:43)
Yeah, they’re quite proud. They’re fine. My father took a while to tell me, but yes, he’s proud as well.
[Gerhard te Velde] (50:43 – 51:13)
Different generation as well, of course. Interesting. Okay, I think it’s time for the final question.
And in my show, my guest always gets to ask the final question. So I’m going to ask you to come up with a question to give to the audience. So an entrepreneur that’s listening or watching, you get the opportunity to trigger them, to send them home with a question.
What comes to mind?
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (51:16 – 52:11)
So if you want to become an entrepreneur or you think about starting a business, how much are you willing to sacrifice from your life? Because once, from my perspective, you start becoming an entrepreneur, you build your business, you sacrifice for some time, free time, time with your friends and family. You’re just hardworking, 70, 80 hours a week or more.
This is part of the deal. And are you willing to do it? Are you willing to sacrifice this or to swap it for personal freedom, to be independent?
When becoming an independent entrepreneur, it’s about work. The reward is independence. And are you willing to sacrifice this or to swap this for other stuff?
That would be my main questions for up-and-coming entrepreneurs.
[Gerhard te Velde] (52:12 – 52:48)
Beautiful. That’s a beautiful question. Today is my 17th anniversary as an entrepreneur.
So exactly 17 years ago, I went to the Dutch Chamber of Commerce. And then when you’re in the game longer, you start thinking like this, okay, these 17 years, they went by. Where did they go?
And you not only put your time and your money in there, but also your life. So you’re really literally putting your life on the line to build your business. Is it worth it?
Or what’s worth it? Well, it’s a big topic.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (52:50 – 53:36)
Yes. And I tell my people here at Fritz Kohler, work should offer fun and pleasure. Not every day, not every hour.
It’s not possible. But most of the time, think when you wake up on a Monday morning, do you want to go to work or do you have to go to work? If you have to go to work, do something other, change your job, go somewhere.
Because we are not here for pain. You’re here for pleasure. So, I mean, it sounds a bit strange.
Still work. But we work most of our time in our life. What is okay.
And if you like your job, then it’s really good. If you don’t like it, change it.
[Gerhard te Velde] (53:37 – 53:37)
Yeah.
[Mirco Wolf Wiegert] (53:37 – 53:38)
Don’t do it.
[Gerhard te Velde] (53:38 – 54:03)
Beautiful. Thank you, Mirko. Thank you.
That’s the pod. Thank you for watching or listening to this episode of Grooivoor. If you want to learn more about Fritz Kohler, head over to fritzkohler.com.
We will also put a link in the show notes to Fritz Kohler, to the book, to the Dutch Instagram. Thanks for your attention and till next time.
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